Mon 19 Dec 2005
Lotus Notes Sucks ?
Posted by Administrator under General
I came across a website called Lotus Notes Sucks - which is dedicated to lambasting IBM’s Lotus Notes corporate messaging client.
The author chooses to remain anonymous since he is forced to work for a company that uses Notes and he (for some reason) is concerned about letting his employer know just how much he hates Notes.
The site has a long list of perceived bugs, outlining in quite a bit of detail the user interface design flaws, and other functionality flaws of Lotus Notes. Most of the flaws are based on the now obsolete v5.0.x client, but some of them have been updated (and indeed some flaws marked as “fixed”), since they are now apparently running Notes v6.5.2
The author (let’s call him Lotus Notes Hater), writes:
Why does this site exist?
It’s not to put Lotus people out of work. It’s to embarrass them into fixing the egregious problems of their product. Also, to influence people into not buying Lotus Notes until it works for users.
Lotus Notes Hater updated his page earlier this year with details of an email he received from someone in the development labs at Lotus:
Dear Lotus Notes Hater,
IBM is working on a redesign of Lotus Notes, as described in the following link.
I, and others on the Notes design team, have been paying attention to your “Lotus Notes Sucks” website. On your home page you mention that one of your goals is to “embarrass [us] into fixing the egregious problems with the product.”
I am writing to ask you to post this email, which is an invitation to participate in usability evaluations of the re-design, on your web site so that many others like yourself can participate in improving Lotus Notes.
Point your browser to http://www-10.lotus.com/ldd/usability to read descriptions about the usability studies and choose the Sign Up link to be contacted.
Thank you.
_________________________________________
Mary xxxxxxxxxxxxx, Ph.D.
Lead User Interaction Designer for Lotus Notes
Westford, MA, USA
The main criticism I have of the site is that much of it is rhetoric, unproductive nitpicking. The only conclusion Lotus Notes Hater seems to be able to come up with for any issue is “Lotus Notes Sucks”. It’s over the top, and fairly unprofessional. But still, that’s not really the point is it? The point is what Lotus Notes Hater has to say - and whether the criticisms are valid.
Some comments about myself might be worth inserting at this point. My first real software development job after finishing university was building Lotus Notes applications. That was nearly 10 years ago (long before I started working for IBM) and I’ve done extensive application development with the product, and have been using Notes for email and applications as a user ever since. I currently use Notes v7.0 for mail and applications.
I love Notes, I think Notes and Domino are a fantastic enterprise messaging platform, and an extremely powerful tool for developing highly secure, distributed applications. I personally believe that it is the best enterprise messaging and collaboration platform available today, and from an IT management point of view, is one of the best investments you could make.
So let’s be perfectly clear. I absolutely love Lotus Notes.
Now that I’ve said that, I actually agree with a large part of what Lotus Notes Hater has to say. I read through a large number of the bugs and issues that he mentions on his site - and largely I agree that they are bad UI design, or meaningless errors, or confusing behaviours, and so forth.
As an IT administrator or application developer, I think Notes and Domino is fantastic.
As an experienced power user of Lotus Notes, I know how to make it sing and dance.
However, if I put myself into the shoes of a novice user, I can understand how some might come to the conclusion that Lotus Notes Sucks.
My usual defence to criticisms of Notes is: Notes is almost 20 years old - most of the GUI standards and behaviours were undefined back then. The cross-platform capabilities of the client bring flexibility and choice. You won’t find a more flexible and capable distributed application development platform around. Anyone (yes, even a salesperson!) can learn how to be a Notes power user, with a bit of training and guidance. Most of the limitations come from the fact that Lotus and IBM have not once ever required you to rip-and-replace your existing Notes/Domino applications when migrating to a newer version. I have heard reports of people running applications developed for Notes v2.0 on a Notes v6.x platform, unchanged !!! That’s unheard of in the IT industry. The preservation of investment is phenomenal, and dramatically lowers the total cost of ownership of this platform.
Of course, the counter arguments to these defences is that nobody cares how old the product is, it should be updated to conform with standards, especially GUI standards. End users don’t care how powerful it is, how flexible it is, or how secure it is (until they lose emails, or get infected with viruses, or find their mail system down for days at a time because of a corrupted data store - but even then, they still won’t sacrifice ease of use if given a choice). End users don’t care about the preservation of investment. End users don’t want to be trained, they just want to sit down and start using the product.
So, from a purely novice end-user point of view, the Notes UI is not as good as it could be (or perhaps should be!). I know that. Most people know that. Even people in the Lotus labs know that. But taken on its own, that’s a very narrow view of the product - and shows a complete lack of understanding of the whole solution.
Concentrating on the end-user client niceties from a novice’s point of view is not the whole story, and this is why I still insist that, despite its shortcomings, Lotus Notes is still the best choice out there as an enterprise messaging platform and distributed application development platform. Don’t underestimate security, reliability, managability, scalability, flexibility, and all the other benefits that the platform provides the enterprise. Anybody who has experienced this knows that there really isn’t anything available that can truely compete with Notes and Domino in this arena. Don’t underestimate how much your users will complain and be bitter if your messaging platform becomes unreliable and stops them doing their jobs effectively - even with a pretty UI. It doesn’t matter how nice the UI is if you still can’t access your email!
Notes may well “suck” for some users, but it works and it works extremely well.
So what’s to be done about it? Complaining won’t actually fix anything (although we did need to make the product managers pay attention to the shortcomings of the client platform, which required a degree of complaining, which techos are permitted by law to do
).
Okay, so what if we were to totally redesign the Notes client user interface from scratch? What if we were to rebuild it on an extensible open source platform? What if we were to re-do the UI to not only conform with the UI standards, but to do so uniquely for each client platform it was deployed on? What if we were to incorporate new functionality based on open standards? What if we were to largely maintain that preservation of investment, minimising (or eliminating) any changes required when upgrading applications to work on this new platform? What if we were to more tightly integrate the client platform with a server platform, reducing deployment and management effort? What if we were to extend the back-end integration to fit in with industry leading Portal technology? What if we were to make the new client not suck?
That’s the key really. The new client simply has to not suck. Although I suspect to actually win over naysayers like Lotus Notes Hater, we would have to do a lot better than to not suck - we would actually have to completely rock, and then they might begrudge us some credit.
Of course, with such high expectations set on this new version of Lotus Notes, there will surely be disappointment. Don’t expect it to be as complete or as powerful as the current Notes client is today. That will take a couple more versions. But do expect it to be nice and end-user friendly. Don’t expect it to be simple. It’s a complex and powerful solution that should provide the basis for the future of collaborative enterprise computing - that comes with a cost. But I still expect it to be nice and end-user friendly (at least, much more so than the current versions of Notes).
In summary - while I don’t think Lotus Notes Hater really appreciates what he has available to him today - I do fully appreciate his complaints. And while I can sympathise with his pains, I do still believe that Notes and Domino is really not that bad. We went through a period internally where our sales people (many who were relatively new to IBM and IBM products like Notes) used to complain bitterly about Notes. All it took was some simple mentoring from experienced users - and they now fully appreciate the power and capabilities of the platform. 2 years ago I was hearing complaints regularly inside IBM, but now I hear none. I think Notes v7 is helping there too - quite a few improvements. Though, maybe it’s really because we all have Siebel to complain about now instead
(oops !)
All I can say is - bring on the next release of Notes. See this article about “Hannover” for more details: With the unveiling of the next release of Lotus Notes, code-named “Hannover,” IBM articulates roadmap, demonstrates commitment
The first thing a Lotus Notes user will notice in Hannover is a fresh, new user interface but the changes go beyond cosmetics. Virtually every core Lotus Notes collaborative function offers new, more productive ways to view and work with information.
So hang in there Lotus Notes Hater - v7 is a step closer to a better client, but Hannover is on its way, and will hopefully make you a believer!
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December 20th, 2005 at 9:14 pm
It’ll certainly be good to finally see something more than just blurry screenshots (of hannover). So I hope at LS2006, the community will be able to download something more substantial to match the mktg-hype.
December 21st, 2005 at 10:14 am
I’ve heard suggestions that we should see the first beta towards the end of 2006 … so I wouldn’t hold my breath for anything usable at Lotusphere … although I’m hoping there will be demos.
December 21st, 2005 at 3:54 pm
Only demos? Wow, this is really a long time in development. So when’s the public beta?
January 4th, 2006 at 8:26 am
Long time in development? Major updates of the Notes client are non-trivial. It has only been six months since announcement (and the screen shots are NOT blurry!
) I can’t say more about what will be said at Lotusphere, but I think it will be pretty impressive.
January 6th, 2006 at 7:05 pm
I’ve used Notes and Exchange and Eudora and AMS (remember that!), and i must say that Notes falls to the bottom of the barrel (IMHO), as does most IBM enterprise software.
It may have been ahead of it’s time in 1990, but times have changed.
IBM lost its ability to produce quality software a while ago - i don’t know exactly how or why.
I used to work for a subsidiary of IBM and was offered a position within IBM proper, which I declined.
I was unimpressed with most of the employees. hate to admit it, but it wasn’t the bright crowd i expected.
I’ve worked at MS - as a contractor, and I have to say that the employees there were brilliant - i mean really, really smart.
and that is why i think that MS can build a product from scratch and compete with IBM who bought their product.
IBM is great at managing relationships, selling to execs and managers who quite often feel put off or threatened by MS culture.
keep in mind, i’ve worked in both places.
used the clunky CMVC system within IBM,
and dealt with their PTF’s, integrated with Smit,
did CICS configuration, AIX admin and development
even a bit of OS/2 development.
remember when IBM tried to sell access to the IBM Global Network? i was there for that.
but, i’ve also worked with microsoft’s source depot, etc, etc.
and in the end, it’s clear to me why IBM is now considered a ’services’ company.
they lost their ability to do software,
lost of a lot of their smart people, or simply don’t empower them
there are pockets of smarts here and there since it is such a big company
anyway - why do i write all of this?
1. because i’m bored, BUT
2. IBM sucks and so do its shitty products, including WebSphere, Notes, Tivoli, their SOA scamware
3. i’ve read posts on the numerous ‘lotus notes sucks’ sites, and i’ve seen IBM employees apologize and agree that Notes sucks. they certainly didn’t praise it.
if it were up to IBM, the mainframe would be the extent of the computing experience,
it would run COBOL, CICS, DB2, there would be no PC, and each mainframe would cost companies approximately 1M/month in software fees.
in other words - IBM’s culture is based on these dark age concepts - and stuff like is really hard to shake out of a company’s culture.
and the other big reason for this rant - i worked on a contract at a large bank, where they had this 4 year long project - based on websphere.
TOTAL piece of crap!!!!!!!!!!!
couldn’t believe they could ship something like that.
of course the sale was made to the CIO of the bank - so there was no choice.
last i heard the project was 2 years late and still hadn’t shipped.
they were trying to find ways of putting in some other app server in some way that they could say that is was based on websphere - literally installing the bits on the same machine even though they were not running.
and of course, i cannot forget my involvement on the periphery of the EJB/J2EE specifications which was large driven by IBM.
As usual for IBM, the project was driven more by politics than a desire for technical excellence, and resulted in some of the strangest specifications i’ve ever seen.
they managed to code this up through some of their subsidiaries and release a steaming pile of bits known as websphere.
it seems to sell best when sold to a customer who doesn’t really know what it is or what it does.
doesn’t matter because IBM will train them in the latest buzzwords at an executive sales meeting.
anyway, i guess the point is this - before you defend notes - try using Outlook/Exchange for a while and then try tell me that you want to switch back.
this rant has gone on too long.
January 6th, 2006 at 9:07 pm
Enterprise platforms spans a wide field and there is a huge range of enterprise platforms. Simply to claim that no other platform can compete with Domino in security, reliability, managability, scalability and flexibility doesn’t convince me much as an argument. It depends heavily on the people involved and on the tasks to solve.
The Lotus community should open their hearts and minds and not constantly switch between: “others are saying bad things about us” and “we are the best”. Its simply hilarious and I feel ashamed being part of the Domino community when I read such bold statement. Its easy, folks.
Axel
January 7th, 2006 at 12:02 am
As much as I disagree with Kevins comment I have to say that your summary about what Notes is or not is and what it might become is one of the best things I have read for months.
Bookmarked and printed.
Thank you.
January 7th, 2006 at 12:13 am
Thanks for the comments everyone.
And Kevin, despite me disagreeing with what you have to say - I do acknowledge your point of view, and appreciate you taking the time to write your comment. Feel free to come and post comments any time you are bored
January 7th, 2006 at 2:57 am
As far as I’m concerned the Notes client is completely indefensible. At a base level it does not adhere to UI guidelines that have been in place since Windows 3.1 ruled the desktop more than 10 years ago. It is so foreign to users that it takes an extreme amount of training to make them proficient. We do quarterly Notes training just to keep drilling the concepts into people’s heads. I can’t tell you how many calls I get from users asking “How do I change my password?” It doesn’t help that things move and are renamed between releases for no apparent reason, and without any documentation (that I have been able to find).
Moving beyond that, there are the problems identified by the Notes Sucks site that have continued to be problems for ages. Some of them are fixed in R7, years after they were identified as problems, and others remain. Out of Office Agents gone haywire, anyone? How about disappearing code in Domino Designer? And why did they make it MORE difficult to get databases into something the users can access? In R5 every database that was opened got added to the Bookmarks. In R6/7 you have to manually add them. That one change increased my support and training burden exponentially.
Then there is Domino Designer. I started programming with Access 2.0 back in 1995. I would argue it has a better development IDE than Domino Designer 7.0. Dockable property windows, a comprehensive code view, a debugger that lets you reset the execution point… all stuff that has been industry standard for over a decade and all still missing in Domino Designer, with no future releases even hinting at any of these features. Maybe that will change at Lotusphere 2006.
Domino is its own beast and I have a real love/hate relationship with it. I like it for being integrated and I hate it for being integrated. I like its security and I hate having to try to navigate through the eleventy billion places to change dozens of things to make stuff work. And I absolutely HATE the documentation, which is rarely helpful unless you already know what you’re doing and just need a reminder.
No matter how much lipstick you put on the Notes pig, it’s still a pig. It’s going to take some serious changes to Notes’ DNA to make it anything else. At some point you have to do a rip and replace. Show me a vendor who hasn’t done that and I’ll show you a dinosaur destined for the boneyard. I’m not suggesting no migration path be offered, but to continue compounding the sins of the past in some quest for the holy grail of backward compatability is absolutely insane.
Having said all that, I use Notes and Domino because it is the best tool on the market for what I want to achieve. There is nothing better at quickly creating fast and secure applications. That doesn’t mean I like it, or that I will continue to use it. It just sucks less than the alternatives.
I am ambivalent about Outlook, but I refuse to drink the Exchange Kool-Aid. That’s just a disaster waiting to happen. I use the Notes client because I have a significant investment in Notes client-based applications. Our future direction is toward web-based applications, which means we will eventually do away with Notes as a client. Our likely approach is to continue to use Domino for the backend until I can come up with a viable stack of other products to replace it. So far I’m working with OpenACS, postgreSQL, SugarCRM, Wildfire and asterisk. This is the type of competition IBM should be more concerned about.
Thanks for letting me participate.
January 7th, 2006 at 10:18 am
Thanks Charles - I know where you are coming from.
You wrote:
“Dockable property windows, a comprehensive code view, a debugger that lets you reset the execution point… all stuff that has been industry standard for over a decade and all still missing in Domino Designer, with no future releases even hinting at any of these features. Maybe that will change at Lotusphere 2006.”
… have you ever played with Eclipse ?
With the next major release of Notes being re-written to run on an Eclipse base, we should automatically get all of these features available to us (it’s part of the platform).
I do agree that all this stuff is way overdue - but I also felt that IBM lost its way over the direction for Notes/Domino in the last few years, and it’s only since the announcements that were made at Lotusphere 2005 that we’ve had a clear indication that IBM actually know what to do with the product.
I’m sure the announcements at Lotusphere 2006 will excite you.
“Our likely approach is to continue to use Domino for the backend until I can come up with a viable stack of other products to replace it”
mmm - how well are they going to integrate ? That is one of the biggest challenges with using a collection of products as opposed to one monolithic application platform - integration. Although I do admit that integration between some of the Domino based products has left a lot to be desired in the past, the core platform features have been pretty well integrated for a long time - makes it so much easier to build powerful applications.
“Our future direction is toward web-based applications, which means we will eventually do away with Notes as a client.”
Unfortunately, I suggest that you will find too many limitations to make this a realistic strategy from a productivity perspective. The industry is already turning back away from light clients and back to server managed clients - at least for real applications that require real interaction. Look at IBM’s Workplace Client Technology platform (and also at Microsoft’s attempts to keep up - they have their own “rich client” strategy, which I won’t comment on now).
“t’s going to take some serious changes to Notes’ DNA to make it anything else. At some point you have to do a rip and replace. Show me a vendor who hasn’t done that and I’ll show you a dinosaur destined for the boneyard.”
… I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the only reason that IBM still has around 50% of this market, when so many people “hate” the product is exactly this reason … we have never given them a convincing reason to throw the product out. Look at how many people balked at the Exchange 5.5 - 2000 upgrade … major step, and we scored a lot of migrations to Domino (and still are) because it was seen as just as easy.
The main reasons people move off Domino are not technical - as you said, love it or hate it, the product does do a pretty darn good job at what it does. People are moving off for political reasons, or for other non-technical reasons (”because the boss prefers Outlook” is a sad reality for many shops).
But they are moving back to Domino because it is easier to manage over the lifecycle of the product BECAUSE of this “dinosaur” approach to maintaining backwards compatibility.
It’s the ultimate double-edged sword for the product - people hate it because we haven’t changed the product enough in the quest to maintain backwards compatability - but people keep using the product because we don’t break what they’ve already done because of our insistence on backwards compatability.
Thanks for your comments!
January 7th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
Yeah, I installed Eclipse. Two cups of coffee and a status meeting later it had actually loaded on my screen, and three returned phone calls later I was able to start using it. I’m exaggerating (a little), but my impression was it was a slow and bloated waste of time. I’m running a Dual Xeon 2.8Ghz workstation with 2GB RAM, so I doubt hardware is the issue.
I really don’t understand the continual need to try to compare Exchange to Domino. They aren’t the same thing in any way, shape or form. The only commonality they have is both do e-mail, and that’s all Exchange does. If I were running a product that only did e-mail and an upgrade had the kind of requirements an Exchange 5.5 to 2000 migration did, I’d be pretty angry too.
But Domino isn’t Exchange. You referred to it as a “monolithic application platform”. I expect upgrading a monolithic application platform to probably require retooling some applications to take advantage of new features. At some point I expect older applications to not work as the platform matures. IBM/Lotus seems to have chosen to appease the committee-driven world of the Fortune 1000 rather than the more agile needs of their smaller customers.
As for the rest of it, I’ll just agree to disagree. I’ve taken up enough of your blog space with my rants.
January 7th, 2006 at 6:21 pm
Thanks for your response Charles.
“IBM/Lotus seems to have chosen to appease the committee-driven world of the Fortune 1000 rather than the more agile needs of their smaller customers”
Now there’s something we do agree on. My job involves working with business partners, helping them to sell our products (primarily Portal) into the SMB space. Now, while I think IBM are starting to make inroads in this area, in reality our products are still way too difficult for most (very) small companies to cope with. The Portal products that is. The products are just too powerful (and hence, complex). Great for enterprise, not yet good enough (ie simple enough) for SMB. But we’re still working on it - and improvements are being made with each new release.
Interestingly, Domino is still seen as our number one SMB product. It’s priced well, it’s simple enough, secure enough, flexible enough, and it doesn’t require a huge investment in hardware to run.
What’s more, our SMB customers also don’t have the capital required to rip-and-replace their solutions with every new version, so Domino actually helps there too I think.
January 8th, 2006 at 10:46 am
And here are the blurry screenshots I was referring too in my post above.
http://www-306.ibm.com/software/swnews/swnews.nsf/n/nhan6dbjwg
As redirected from http://www.lotus.com/hannover
If these are high definition, then my eyes are completely buggered
January 8th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
Sorry, mate, at some point the hi-res ones were there for download.
Try my site instead:
http://www.edbrill.com/ebrill/edbrill.nsf/dx/hannoverscreenshots.html
January 9th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
@Justin: The screenshots are not blurry in that page. They have been resized using markup to fit the column. Just view the images in a new page and you can see the detail.
January 9th, 2006 at 10:05 pm
It is simply untrue that Notes has a bad UI design because it is backward compatible. I can implement an undo function or a right-click folder deletion without breaking old applications. Same goes for realtime spellchecking like in WORD and lots of other things Notes misses so badly.
February 8th, 2006 at 3:18 am
Hi. I’m a network administrator for a rather large company. Out of every user here that has been surveyed, their main complaint is Lotus Notes. It is intractable, useless, and their iNotes template has more features than the full client that people are used to, such as a right click menu that actually does something. The spiral-type hiding of options, the lack of centralization, the overabiding sense of: This program was written for aliens… All of these things contribute to what amounts to actual hatred for a program.
The only, and I mean *the only* people I have met in my work who like Lotus Notes are Lotus Notes developers. That is it. 3,000 employees in this location alone, and the only person we’ve met who enjoyed using Notes was when IBM sent some of their developers over. Of the 3 that came, 1 of them admitted to liking the interface. The others just said, “Yeah, it’s sad.”
You can bluster all you want, you can post all the screenshots you want to the “next version” which will make it all better, but the plain truth is that Lotus Notes Sucks.
Thank you for your time.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:41 am
I hate lotus notes too. Everyone here hates lotus notes. It just sucks, no excuses. I want to get rid of it. Everything else is just better. Lotus Notes is the worst program ever written! I’m sorry, I’m not a troll, I just want Lotus Notes to disappear!
January 15th, 2007 at 7:59 am
ladies and gentlemen, Lotus Notes sucks. Thank-you.
February 11th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Notes can lead anyone to madness. It’s slow, and the IU makes me fell sick.
I am an IBM employee, and I have never seen anyone (besides notes developers) to say “Oh, notes is coll !” . At best, the people does not say nothing. The general users hate it.
April 28th, 2007 at 7:32 am
I started a list of the problems using Lotus Notes “Mail Anywhere” on a Mac (10.4) and it got so long and comical I just gave up. Some of the behaviors are completely bizarre, like scroll bars not letting you double-click a message that you’ve scrolled down to. The regular Notes software on the work computer doesn’t do much better. It’s universally known at work (Virginia Commonwealth University) as “Loser Notes.” We’re all forced to use it. I’ve been e-mailing since Bitnet and have never had so many bugs. And we paid through the nose for it to.
May 10th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Hi all.
As far as I can see, no one has mentined in this forum the fact than lotus notes doesn’t natively sync with PDAs. In today’s world, where more and more people are buying smart phones and PDAs It makes no sense you have to buy a 70 dollars piece of software just to have your lotus apointments on your mobile device. As a company owner I wouldnt even think about using notes because ALL of my staff have PDAs or Mobile phones.
June 23rd, 2007 at 3:59 pm
I am an IBM employee , and I can say for sure that using notes everyday is a torture.
I cannot see a single IBM employee who does not hates lotus.
Only notes developers like it.
The product stopped in time, no evolution, v7.0 sucks as well.
I’s slow, crashes all time, ridiculous interface, and even the so much said “Application” platform sucks. It’s basically a MS-Access like applications, a single database file, with some logic built in.
It was amazing maybe 10 years ago, not, it’s outdated.
Summarizing:
Lotus notes sucks BIG !!
heheh …LOL
July 10th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
This is a minor point, but it’s indicative of how sucky this software is. In the “Mail Anywhere” software we have to use to access our Loser Notes mail on the web when you click the little x to cancel a message a window pops up and asks “What do you want to do?” with a button that says “Continue” or “Cancel.”
What this effing means is, do you want to “Cancel your cancel” or “Continue your cancel.” So if you want to cancel you have to press “continue” not “cancel”…… AAAAAaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggg!
August 3rd, 2007 at 10:40 am
Lotus Notes is a stinking pile. Why, when one has selected “empty trash” is a “yes/no” option presented? Didn’t I just affirmatively select to empty trash. This is a minor example of attrocious design which is downright user-hostile.
Having to “compact” Notes (which I am stuck doing almost daily) is a cruel joke — if the application needs to be “compacted” it should do so unobtrusively in the background. Why should I as an end-user be faced with this task?
Horrid program, I loathe, desest, revile and spit upon Notes.
August 16th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
This small entry sums up Notes so well (in my opinion of course).
http://lotusnotessucks.4t.com/lnEx78.html
October 16th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
Lotus notes does suck. I have used MS Outlook as well and it is a much superior product. Is IBM ever going to improve the web UI at all!
January 24th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Lotus Notes is by far the worst application I have had to deal with, and the only good comment I can make about it is that it keeps me employed. I work at a helpdesk, and calls about Notes surpass calls for account administration issues. The company is a global firm with over 200,000 employees. So if you are calling more about an application sucking than you are about a password issue, you know that applications sucks the big one.
But like I said, thank you IBM for the piece of crap you roled out, it gives me a paycheck.
February 9th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Lotus notes is the worst mail application that I have used. I am currently forced by my company to have this big fat piece of software installed on my computer. It slows everything else down.
I know that lotus notes has many other features for application development, don’t you think these developments could be done more easily and cheaply on a simple web server.
Lotus notes is used by most people for only mail, and before anyone try to defend this awful piece of software, I have two points:
1. Do you know anyone how have voluntarily used Lotus Notes, I don’t think so. People only use this product because they are forced to.
2. Where I work people are constantly complaining about lotus notes, and saying ‘why can we just use outlook’. I have worked before in companies that have used an exchange server and I never ever, ever heard one person say, ‘I wish we could be using Louts Notes’
It’s true Lotus Notes Suck more that any other piece of software in history.
February 19th, 2008 at 10:52 am
I am forced to use and support lotus notes. I am a power user, and although I can make it “sing” it still sucks. I spend more time supporting this application then any other in the company. There is a strong push to get rid of it, that can not soon enough.
March 8th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
I love Notes.
I loved Notes running on OS/2 Warp and watching our corporate data replicating from server to server, user to user, which was a rare facet of data democratization in those times.
Yes, those were the tranquil halcyon days before the internet and the foibles of trying to negotiate searches under that awful character-based interface. Those halcyon days before the web interface hid the engine from view and brought every level of stupidity and depravity into our living rooms and office spaces.
I loved Notes running on Win95 and even started a business developing Notes and Domino apps for clients who were brave enough to stick with a suddenly-irrelevant product.
Yes, it lacks the smooth GUI ops of Windows-influenced products and, yes, it seems a tad out of place in this web-driven world, but when push comes to shove, Notes/Domino still offers the most bullet proof architecture for maintaining timely data across a wide group of federated users with it’s replication model.
Of course, I used, and loved, both Lotus Symphony 2.2 and Lotus Agenda 2.0, too.
May 8th, 2008 at 2:29 am
I work at a large company which was recently bought by another company, and now we are forced to switch from outlook to lotus notes 6.5.6 ; The result? 2000 pissed-off employees, the support staff had to grow significantly to support all the desperate cries for help.
As most of us are developers here, we are specifically outraged due to the complete disregard for a decent user treatment that the Lotus UI offers, with absurd or/and incomplete and/or irrelevant messages and clicking, extremely obnoxious colour schemes, really, and I mean *really* unintuitive design (why do I have to press Insert to mark a message as read? What am I inserting?) and a lot of bloat software that nobody will ever use. The idea of having to develop something on top of Lotus sends shivers down my spine.
Lotus is a good choice if you are a manager and are entirely interested in cost reduction. Sure, it is cheaper than Outlook (and it can do more - but who really needs to deploy custom functionality on top of it?), but there is a very very good reason why Lotus is cheaper than Outlook: the Lotus developers either didn’t put as much development effort in it or they did but in a very, very odd and obsolete direction.
IBM developers, please try to learn something from Microsoft… and thank you for taking 2000 people a bit closer to insanity.
May 19th, 2008 at 8:51 am
I have also come to the conclusion that Lotus Notes sucks! I am an IT professional and have been working in the industry for over twenty years. I used Notes many years ago and now have the displeasure to do so again. I am currently using Notes 6.5. The interface looks like it was designed by someone just getting into programming. I must say, if I had such a person designing software for me, I would fire them!
You said that Notes has been around for a long time and that interface standards was not established at the time. This is true. There is, however, no excuse to have such a poor interface. After all, Notes has been around a long time. I thing they could have used some of that time to improve things. There has been very little change in the interface since I used it back in 1994! How sad is that!